What is the future of the superconductors?

[Viktor Berg]

I'm a tech person, and obviously am interested in many tech-related questions. One of the most interesting ones to me is superconduction.

To those who do not know what superconduction is, I will now offer a brief explanation. We all know that metals have the ability to "conduct" electricity - that is, transfer it from one place to other. However, when this is happening, the metal (it does not have to be a metal, but let's assume) heats up. This heat is the direct result of loss of energy. It's like a lightbulb that warms air needlessly, when it's only supposed to shine. A superconductor is a metal or other material that, when cooled down to a certain temperature mark, suddenly becomes much more conductive - the energy loss is VERY close to 0.

Moving this "lecture" aside, I want the fellow forumites' opinion of the development and use of superconductors in close and distant future.

As we know it, there are 2 types of superconductors out there, and a third one still questioned, whether it can be created (so, in all, 3 types consisting of 2 real and 1 imaginary). I will list the different types of superconductors:

1. The low-temperature, or "normal" superconductors. These guys have a VERY low "critical point" - often being just a few C from the absolute zero (-273.15C, I believe). They are extremely hard to cool down to their critical point, and the energy loss from simply creating enough liquid hydrogen/helium is often much too bigger than the benefit of using a superconductor.

Still, such superconductors are used, since normally the material of a conductor is simple to create and can transfer great amounts of electric current. It can be cobber or other metals. Heck, even iron can become a super-conductor! The main use of these as of now is in great big [bushy beards] electromagnets, alike the ones used in MRI scanning.

Main wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconductor

2. The high-temperature superconductors. These are usually very complex metal alloys or other mixtures that reach their critical point with much higher temperatures: -150~-200C. This means liquid oxygen and liquid nitrogen can cool them down, meaning much less power used on cooling down the actual coolant.

However, there are 3 problems with this type of conductors:

a) They are very difficult to make. Some superconductors require a certain structure to be able to act like they should, some others require a number of rare elements (yttrium and such), and some require both.

b) They are physically fragile. Think of a porcelaine cup, and you will get the idea of about how fragile the nowaday's best superconductor is.

c) They can't lead great currents through them, due to the complexity of the structure. Use too strong of a current, and it will simply break down, not because of resistance or heat, but because it was damaged at atomary level [whatever]. And one still has to cool them down. *sheesh*

Main wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_superconductors

3. The room-temperature superconductors. These are conductors that require temperature from 0 and up to start superconducting. That is, put it in a freezer and you've got a superconductor. No such material has been invented yet, though. There are countless benefits to this type of superconductors: the energy loss from cooling is close to 0, especially in places where low temperature is inherent - polar icecaps, as well as generally cold places like mountains, north of the northern hemisphere and south of the southern hemisphere. The questions that are set up: how much will it cost to produce such a material, and how it will behave itself in physical sense? It doesn't cut having it as a superconductor at room temperatures, it has to have a good leading capacity and not have the fragility of glass.

Main wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room-temperature_superconductor

Now for some awesome uses of superconductors:

1. Use it to simply transfer power from one place to other. Without power losses due to heat, the energy will be much easier to transfer (it's scary when you look at the numbers showing energy loss at large distances!), and as such it will be cheaper. I want cheap electricity, don't you as well?

2. Levitation. Oh yes! A magnet placed over a superconductor can levitate endlessly. And since the superconductor loses nearly no energy, it's basically free levitation (which makes me believe future power cables will be used as train tracks).

3. ... Can't come up with more in a hurry, but I bet there are many more uses to such an awesome phenomenon!

Thanks for attention.

[Manbearpig]

I felt bad because no one was posting here. I think super-conducters have amazing potential and there should a lot more research done into it.

[intooblivion]

Too bad gold has to be so damn valuable, otherwise it'd be a great room temperature conductor.

[Sersoft.corp]

Lol everybody knows that gold is only useful for making a crowbar for gordon..

[intooblivion]

"This crowbar is now more valueable than all the test subjects internal organs combined."

[Manbearpig]

I think you mean "This crowbar is now worth more than the combined organs and incomes of <Subject Hometown>"
Yes, I am an asshole.

[Viktor Berg]

Too bad gold has to be so damn valuable, otherwise it'd be a great room temperature conductor.

It is used right now, although only in electronic circuits. And it still produces heat and energy loss. The point with a superconductor is that there is close to no energy lost, and as such, it does not warm up at all. CPU at 20 degrees maximum loaded without water cooling - imagine that.

[Sersoft.corp]

:ohmy:

that means, better laptops, a 8800gtx and a quad core extreme could finally fit in a laptop.

[jambo]

Just get an external video card for your laptop.

[Viktor Berg]

*sweat droplet* You don't get it, jambo, amiright?

The point is to have a 256-core 128-bit processor, as well as the complementary 32GB RAM, and a 133700GTX Overclocked, all in your laptop.

Runs 16 Crysis games at once ^_^

[intooblivion]

Viktor: "Windows was running too fast for me, I couldn't keep up with it. So I opened about 30,000 copies of crysis so I could make sense of what was happening on screen when I was typing in word."

[Viktor Berg]

... I give up. Even 4chan is more understanding.

[Psyborg]

I understand you, Berg. It would just be cool.

[Viktor Berg]

With superconductors, you woudln't even look back at Crysis. How 'bout a fully 3D virtual reality, accessed through a special costume, with real-life realism?

I could imagine that.

[intooblivion]

Porn would be amazing.

[Manbearpig]

It always is, it always is.

[intooblivion]

3000000 megapixel lifelike interactve porn, with hdr!

[Psyborg]

I could imagine that.

I'm imagining it right now!

[Mad Scientist]

Bumping time. My absence made me miss this thread.

Firstly, i hate to break it to you folks, but there is a limit to how good we can make electronic computers. Even if you could get RT superconductors, that won't be a HUGE amount of help to the computing industry, as they relys on semiconductors. You can cut down losses between transistors, but the losses by the transistors themselves are still endemic. What you really need for that is "super-semiconductors", a technology so advanced i can't even think of a theory to describe their operation. Forget laptop sized supercomputers. Although they are possible, superconductivity won't bring you them. You'll get a modest improvement, but nothing we wouldn't expect to see in the next couple of decades of steady development.

secondly, At the end of the day, we can only make silicon transistors so small, before they stop working. It's a fundamental quantum mechanical property of silicon. Silicon electronics has its limits. Even if we find a way of using carbon organics, (these can go smaller), there is a limit as to how many electrons we can make dance to our tune. Ultimately, the laws of reality themselves decree that there is a finite limit to how much information you can process in a given volume of space. Its very high compared to what we can do now, but its still limited.

The real application of superconductors lies in brute force engineering applications. Personally, I'm really hoping that the applications for superconducting dialectics could lead to ultra-high energy storage systems. Batteries would be far more efficient. Hand-held laser tools would actually be a possibility, not to mention the fact that we could design electric vehicles that could actually out perform petroleum based ones.

And of course, the ultra strong magnetic fields would also have a plethora of uses...

[Viktor Berg]

Ah, I'd been hoping to get a response from you, Mad Sci,on this topic.

Sad to see my dreams crushed by your crisp and firm logic. However, you are also right about the application of RT superconductors in fields outside of computer technology.

Now that I think about it: electric cars have one main problem, and that is their battery capacity. With the introduction of materials that remain superconductive at temperatures close to room temperature, the battery charge can get THAT much larger, and hence the purely electric vehicles can get a chance to compete on today's transport marked.

Now only to figure out a way to produce enough power to charge these batteries...

[geekofalltrades]

(Gold) is used right now, although only in electronic circuits.
Aye... those pins on your CPU are 24 karat. *cha-ching*

I would imagine that superconductors could have a number of applications in outer space, seeing as it wouldn't take as much energy up there to cool them down (space is pretty cold, amirite?).

[Mad Scientist]

Now that I think about it: electric cars have one main problem, and that is their battery capacity. With the introduction of materials that remain superconductive at temperatures close to room temperature, the battery charge can get THAT much larger, and hence the purely electric vehicles can get a chance to compete on today's transport marked.

Indeed. Much of engineering is not creating entirely new devices, but bring the performance of existing devices to the point where they are worth investing in. Same applies with space travel. We can fly materials and personnel to the moon and back, but it costs so much that no corporation would be willing to invest in setting up a moonbase.

This brings me on to the next point:

I would imagine that superconductors could have a number of applications in outer space, seeing as it wouldn't take as much energy up there to cool them down (space is pretty cold, amirite?).

Largely yes. The problem is that although space is indeed a brisk 2-3K in temperature, the spaceships and space stations that humans use are not. Heat sinking is easier of course, but the inside of spacecraft still have the problem of needing to cool the SC down.

However, i can think of a useful application off the top of my head. Any humans outside the Earth's magnetic field can easily get a lethal dose of radiation during a solar flare. Superconducting wires mounted in the hull of a spacecraft could be used to generate a field strong enough to deflect the worst of the radiation. This would become particularly important on longer duration space missions.

of course, actually making the SC work at a warm enough temperature is half the problem. You also have to make them structurally sound enough to use. Some of our better superconductors crumble into powder when you try and draw them into wire. We aren't there quite yet.

[Viktor Berg]

Yes, Mad Sci, I agree. Although some potent (theoretically) superconductors have been developed, their structure and composition makes them frail and inconvenient materials to use in real-life machinery. Take the Yttrium Barium Copper Oxide, for example (henceforth known as YBCO):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/BaYCusuperconduct.jpg

[courtersy of Wikipedia]

It's critical point in regads of superconductivity lies above the melting point for nitrogen, which is pretty high relatively to absolute zero (+77.36 K). However, it has 2 major drawbacks:

A) It has a very low threshold in regards of current passing while maintaining it's superconductivity. If the threshold is breached, the advantage of superconductivity is lost, and regular resistance kicks in. Ouch.

B) It's very brittle and weak. AFAIK, it can be considered a ceram (Mad Sci, correct me if I'm wrong).

@geek & Mad Sci: it is indeed possible to use superconductors in the space. However, one very important thing must be considered: in the unshielded environment of nearly complete vacuum, sunrays have an extreme strength. Henceforth, exposing superconductors to the Sun can have that effect that said superconductors will warm up beyond any reasonable level and of course lose all conductivity.

Proper shielding must be applied, for example, simple reflective plates. It's simply to reflect the infrared spectre, as well as the visible part (although it's less potent in terms of warming things up).

[Mad Scientist]

Ahhh, but if you add reflective plates, then although you will not absorb much insolation, you won't emit any heat you generate yourself. The result will be without radiator systems and heat exchangers, your superconductors will eventually get too hot.

Of course these problems ARE surmountable. Its just a question of time and engineering.

[ninjalegend]

I found this article somewhat interesting and relevant.

Power Architecture in the news

Cool advances in chip technology

IBM has developed a silicon-germanium chip that runs at 500GHz near absolute zero, at 350GHz at room temperature, and at 1 teraherts in simulation (Electronic News). While the CMOS manufacturing (on 200-mm wafers) uses standard technology (EE Times), New Scientist predicts that cooling will remain a problem for the "frozen chip" (Power Architecture editors' blog).

Researchers at IBM Zurich are already working to address the problem, of course, adding conductive nanoscale particles to the mix for TIMs and microchannels to the surfaces of TIMs -- and microscopic swamp coolers to heatsinks -- all in the name of cooling down hot processors (VNUnet).

In other cool chip news, researchers at University College London are baking silicon dioxide at room temperature with ultraviolet light (at a "very deep UV" wavelength of around 126 nm) in the hopes of finally achieving the industry's cherished dream of easily printing flexible circuits on cloth and other unusual materials (BBC News, Infoworld).

Researchers at Harvard University also crave flexible circuits that can be assembled at room temperature on various surfaces, including plastic. However, they favor nanowire-based transistors instead of silicon (MIT Technology Review).

Still others prefer to craft their room-temperature flexible circuits the old-fashioned way -- with an inkjet printer (Electronic News).

Also read up on "Bose-Einstein condensate". The true future of supercomputers.

[intooblivion]

Eventually we could come to have atom computation somehow using hydrogen atoms as transistors. Then computers could be REALLY small and powerful.