Earthlings

[hot564231]

***Warning, those with weak guts, do not watch this...***

This is moving Docu can give you a new view on life.
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[klaymore]

the hell if Im going to spend an hour watching that

edit: watched like 10 min of it, it sucks.

[Love_Nutz]

Watch 45 mins into it.

[klaymore]

I find the whole concept borderline retarded to be honest

[Love_Nutz]

Well, that's your opinion, and you may stand with it if you like, I tend to think diffently

[Flarty]

whats this? pro=vegan debate?

[redgrassbridge]

You've posted before, Hot...

I still think the industry standard here is deplorable. I also think there are few with the opportunity and desire to change the state of things (mostly, it's one or the other).

Oh, and Klay, it's a bad idea to judge an hour's worth of material on the first ten minutes.

[Psyborg]

I've seen this. It's a good documentary; memorable, and it makes you want to change things. That is, until you (and by you I mean me) see a delicious hamburger joint or bag of beef jerky, and then you realize you can't change anything anyway and you have to hope somebody important will change stuff.

Also, I re edited much of the animal cruelty in that film to the song "Daydream" by Lovin' Spoonful just to annoy my animal rights activist friend. Does that make me a bad person?

[Ares]

The strong will pray upon the weak.

It's sad, but that's how the world works.

What is this video supposed to make me feel, Hot? Guilt? Should I be guilty for being in a superior position towards animals? Should I be guilty for enjoying a steak, a BLT, a chicken salad, or some veal? What is this video telling me I should do? Respect every single organism on the planet by giving up all technology and meat as a part of my diet?

My ancestors didn't spend thousands of years evolving into a being that's superior because of mental capacity, rather than physical ability, for me to lower myself to the level of an animal.

[Atomic Waffle]

I agree with Ares. As arrogant and horrible as it may sound, we happen to be the most superior beings on this planet, next to Virii. We are the top of the food chain, and we haven't gotten there by sheer physical superiority, we have the intelligence to develop tools, and those tools keep us alive.

The main problem with eating meat is the regulations, because diseased meat = Ultra Bad.

[Sersoft.corp]

I would want to change things but the people spamming youtube/google with these videos (like uploading the same video under 200different names) are so annoying and stubborn, that it makes me wanna eat meat in front of their face...


the hell if Im going to spend an hour watching that

edit: watched like 10 min of it, it sucks.

once I got banned for making comments like that in the debate hall, it's for serious discussions... but I can't say I disagree with you on the video:lol:

[Black Op]

Hmmmm..... why should I give a damn over the slaughter of animals if it keeps me alive? I briefly experimented with being a vegetarian when I was a little kid, but that didn't do anything except give me mood swings. I sure won't go make that same mistake again. :dry:

[hot564231]

The strong will pray upon the weak.

It's sad, but that's how the world works.

What is this video supposed to make me feel, Hot? Guilt? Should I be guilty for being in a superior position towards animals? Should I be guilty for enjoying a steak, a BLT, a chicken salad, or some veal? What is this video telling me I should do? Respect every single organism on the planet by giving up all technology and meat as a part of my diet?

My ancestors didn't spend thousands of years evolving into a being that's superior because of mental capacity, rather than physical ability, for me to lower myself to the level of an animal.

Don't shoot the messager.

Just because the movie shows the bad treatment of animals doesn't mean I won't go and get burgers from iceland for 99p.

Even know you eat meat, and it's a part of life, it doesn't mean you can't feel sorry for them for the bad treatment.

[jambo]

I feel like a Steak now!

[klaymore]

humans>animals

the end

Its not like I don't like animals or anything, in fact I love interacting with them. but I really don't see them even borderline as anything equal to us.

[Black Op]

it doesn't mean you can't feel sorry for them for the bad treatment.
I can't be bothered to feel sorry, since the animals we eat are bred for the sole purpose of serving humanity. If I was truely concerned for animals, I would be opposed to killing them entirely, but my lifestyle ensures that animals don't even have the right of life, and I can't be bothered to give up my lifestyle just to let some puny animals live. Of course, the right's of humans trump those of animals since we're at the top of Earth's food chain anyway.

[hot564231]

Look, I wouldn't like to have my skin pulled off while i'm still alive and then left there to die, I would rather see it die a clearer death than to make it suffer.

[rtanger]

I beheaded and helped dress my first chickens at the age of 5. I watched my grandpa drive his small yearly herd of cattle into the holding pen and place one bullet between each of their eyes, and watched him dress them out. I've field-dressed deer and elk, and can skin a bunny in one pull from the ears to the backside. The end-of-hunting butcher is almost a ritual in my household. I think it's safe to say that my abilities to use animals as food is honestly earned.

Have a problem with the slaughter-mill system? Don't support it. Raise your own animals, or buy only cage-free and free-roam products. Find an independent butcher that supports local farmers and humane livestock practices, and make them your best friend. It's worth the few dollars extra, the meat and dairy as well as egg products are much superior and better-tasting overall.

Hate the idea of puppymills? Don't buy your best friend at ANY large chain petstore. Look for breeders in catalogs and check out their facilities and buy from the one that you believe is the most humane. Get a dog from a shelter, there's some awesome animals in desparate need of a good home.

Support hobbyist pet breeders and buy exotics ONLY from people who breed them exclusively and in small batches, and only buy from ones you see giving animals the most humane of conditions. NEVER buy exotics from ANY large-chain pet store. Ever. Please.

There's dozens of small steps all of us can take to stop the over-commodization of animals, but simply posting a movie and claiming to be changed doesn't count. ACTIVELY take steps to improve your relationship with the world.

Animals are born and bred to eat other animals, and humans are no different. Just look around and decide how you want to support our system of living or not. There's many ways to change, and every step helps.

[P-Thunder.]

Humans are fair ****, if i had a fight with an angry cow it would most likely win by crushing me. We aren't very superior physically, only mentally. So i get my revenge by eating the bastards!

[TheTaxidermist]

Let me ask you this, how many wild cows do you see running around? Sure you see wild bulls but how many wild cows do you see runnin around? That's what I thought.

I didn't watch it, just gathering info from the posts.

[Kester]

I'm at a moral crossroads here. At one level I have no problems with animals bred to slaughter for my feeding habits nor I have no problem with testing on animals for the advancement of human science.

I do however have a problem with testing on animals where there is no real advancement of human science going on. Dogs being skinned whilst they are alive, and just left to die. Dolphins being butchered whilst still alive, convulsing in pain. Indian cows being bought under false pretences and virtually tortured as they are taken hundreds of miles to somewhere where it is legal to kill them.

Basically, I have no problem with the killing of animals, for human needs, if it is done in a "humane" way.

[P-Thunder.]

Let me ask you this, how many wild cows do you see running around? Sure you see wild bulls but how many wild cows do you see runnin around? That's what I thought.

I didn't watch it, just gathering info from the posts.

Never heard of Mad cow disease?

[Psyborg]

I agree with Kester here; the cruelty shown in the video is unnecessary. But I have no problem with eating animals or using them in testing. We're higher up on the food chain; it's just the way things go. But cruelty is not necessary.

[TheTaxidermist]

Umm hello, in order to kill the chickens they cut the heads off. Of course it is going to look gruesome. Killing animals is gruesome. Eating them is delicious.

[hot564231]

Bah, I give up on you people, everything seems a joke to you lot.

[rtanger]

I was serious...

[hot564231]

Not you :dry: , those who were treating it as a joke.

[Kester]

Umm hello, in order to kill the chickens they cut the heads off. Of course it is going to look gruesome. Killing animals is gruesome. Eating them is delicious.
Erm hello, but cutting off their breast meat whilst they are still alive is inhumane (not that that happens in this video, but many things like it do). Cutting their heads off does not prolong their suffering needlessly, where as many of the issues raised in this video does.

[Garcian Smith]

I'm sorry, Hot - but here's a rebuttal of sorts. I would make some argument but I've just got back from an exam and my mind is slush:

STRONG LANGUAGE AND SOME SCENES OF ANIMAL CRUELTY

4118674585934009124

[DKR1138]

I like eating animals... I dispise greens...

The majority of my diet includes a large quantity of meat and fruit, no salads. It works for me, I never get sick and barely ever get colds.

The treatment of animals of course is prime as well, and having a brother who used to work at a meatworks who was involved in the slaughter stage of the process; well, I can tell you right now, that they don't feel any pain when they get killed, they get plugged right in the brain, dead at the instant.

[hot564231]

I have no problem with an animal dying instant, but leaving it to die with it's neck cut open and breeding to death, do you see what I'm getting at here.

[NeoSeeker]

^ I agree

[rtanger]

The thing to keep in mind is that even the quickest deaths end up looking quite gruesome. Remove a chicken's head, and the muscles of the body go into hyper-fire mode. In other words, that headless chicken twitches and flops like you burned it up the butt. It's clearly dead when the head leaves the body, but it certainly doesn't act that way. I'm sure that goes for other methods as well. I'm not saying I've ever removed my head from my body or shot a rod through my brain to see what it felt like, but I imagine they're unaware of their plight rather quickly. Er, not to be macabre or anything...

[Flarty]

what about miracle mike?

[Garcian Smith]

I have no problem with an animal dying instant, but leaving it to die with it's neck cut open and breeding to death, do you see what I'm getting at here.

That's pretty much the definition of the preparation for Dhabiĥa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal_meat#Dhabi.C4.A5a_.28method_used_to_slaughte r_animals.29), the Halal treatment of slaughtering animals.

Something which I completely disagree with.

[Flarty]

HEY THATS KOSHER, besides im more worried about how veal is treated.

[rtanger]

I think anyone and everyone can agree that the concept of veal is completely horrific. Er, except for veal eaters....but they're likely evil anyways, so it all wbalances out, somehow...

[Atomic Waffle]

Just send a 250,000,000 Volt, Multi-Amperage shock through them. Isn't that hard to do. Instant death.

[rtanger]

what about miracle mike?

An interesting freak occurence, that's for sure, since the owner who "created" him fairly sucked at swinging a hatchet.....his flubbed swing took off only the front half of the chicken's head, leaving most of the brainstem intact, and it was a lucky clot at the top of the jugular prevented the chicken from bleeding out....but still, you brought up an interesting occurence for sure.
The thing to me that makes it sad is the number of chickens who lost their heads needlessly to starstruck and hatchet-happy chicken raisers that tried to replicate the same event...

but at any rate, my point up there should only obviously apply to cases where the brain/cord seperation is complete...

(in an interesting aside, I grew up only about an hour's drive from the town of Fruita, Mike's "hometown")

[Flarty]

Yeah i was actually taking the piss.

Did you celebrate miracle mike day on the 17th? :P

[NavMan]

That's pretty much the definition of the preparation for Dhabiĥa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal_meat#Dhabi.C4.A5a_.28method_used_to_slaughte r_animals.29), the Halal treatment of slaughtering animals.

Something which I completely disagree with.

Garcian, if you actually read into it more, the method used in Islam is in fact , just as humane as any conventional method. It may even be healthier.

According to Islamic tradition, the conventional method used to slaughter the animal involves cutting the large arteries in the neck along with the esophagus and trachea with one swipe of an unserrated blade. This method of slaughter serves a dual function: it provides for a relatively painless death and also helps to effectively drain blood from the animal. The latter is important because the consumption of blood itself is forbidden in Islam. Muslims consider this method of killing the animal to be cleaner and more merciful to the animal. During the blood draining process, the animal is not handled until it has died.Taken from here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabi%C4%A5a#Slaughtering_process)

[grega t]

I really shouldent have watched the part at 55:00.....

[TheTaxidermist]

Just send a 250,000,000 Volt, Multi-Amperage shock through them. Isn't that hard to do. Instant death.

Isn't that what Pamela is upset about KFC for doing to their chickens?

[intooblivion]

I saw a peta stand where they had a pamphlet on kfc chicken slaughter, and it reminded me that I hadn't had kfc in a while so I ate there.

I have to say, the way animals are killed by us isn't that bad. If they were in the wild do you think that they still wouldn't die from starvation? Do you think a wild predator kills more efficiently then we do? Exactly. So we try, but we can only get better than nature would do to them otherwise.


Also so you know I did watch the whole video.

[Natoksane]

I'm going to make a video about cats hunting mice and how wrong it is. It's not right for cats to hunt mice so they can survive. Cats don't have the right to hunt to live and take away the life of something else for survival.

Survival of the fittest is totally wrong and I'm going to make a video about it. Cats are cruel earthlings.

[intooblivion]

Already is a video like that.
M-YDooQpR4g

[zim]

I'm going to make a video about cats hunting mice and how wrong it is. It's not right for cats to hunt mice so they can survive. Cats don't have the right to hunt to live and take away the life of something else for survival.

Survival of the fittest is totally wrong and I'm going to make a video about it. Cats are cruel earthlings.

you've totally missed the point of the video.

[Kester]

zim is right, it's not about survival of the fittest. It's about inhumane treatment and torture of animals.

[Natoksane]

I didn't watch all of the video, I turned it off after I watched people slit the animals necks open.

That's from what I gathered early on.

There isn't anything pretty about how animals kill each other in the wild, this seemed to follow that. I agree we could probably have a more efficient way to do it, but with people trying to save their money now days, I suppose a more primitive knife to the throat is the most money efficient of ways.

It is indeed sad.

I said the cats thing because of something someone said early on...
If I can stomach to watch it again, I'll go find it. Most likely not though.

[MaxTheLimit]

I'm just going to start by saying I'm not an animal activist, and I'm not a vindictive or vicious person. I do not care for the suffering of animals. Without sacrifice and suffering humans would have nothing. Great things come from the pain of the weak or opposing. Without the torture pagans used to inflict upon victims sanitation would have been a long time coming. Many of the modern medical knowledge was derived from information gained through brutal experimentation on inmates and those looked on as mentally unbalanced. Animals may be innocents, but even innocents must pay brutal prices for an advancing world. Intentional or not. One cow is killed to feed many people, however the amount of grain required to feed the people causes the deaths of dozens more of animals that die brutally at the hands of farm equipment. Some people may say that this is missing the point but it is exactly the point. One cow who takes a pressure shot to the head in slaughter equals out on average to about 17 animals killed in the manufacture of grain alone. Which death is worse the cows or the deer sucked into grain sifting mechanism to be skinned and dies of eventual infection? This sort of thing cannot be avoided when any civilization reaches a certain size and requires such levels of commodities. It's not restricted to food either medicinal and product testing is (believe it or not) a natural progressive event that will lead to the increased wellbeing of those who come after, even for the fellow species of the victims. The retention of knowledge causes the particular effects will not need to be repeated, and could prevent even more suffering amongst ourselves. I am not talking about survival, I'm talking about advancement. Advancement is now more important than survival. It's one thing to live through an even but it's another to prepare ourselves to overcome future problems. General animal torture I don't condone but I do see as an effect of the human condition. As a race humans are brutal, malevolent, and self interested. As much as we mention our good intentions there will never be a mass movement to protect other species at the expense of our own existence, or even basics of lifestyle. There will always be those that oppose but there will also always be those who can advance themselves from such actions and thus if one can someone WILL. I'm not saying it's a great thing, but it's how it is, and it won't change no matter how many individuals try. But through horrible pain and suffering in our world we can become something great. Eventually humans we come to a penultimate of an advanced state. We already try to repay for our past sacrifices, and we will also do it when we get beyond requiring what we do now.

[Kester]

I see both yours and Nato's points. But ripping the skin off a dog while it is still alive and then just leaving it to die, or butchering a dolphin whilst it is still alive do not need to be done. Both could quite easily be relativily painlessly killed and then had the respective acts performed to them.

[MaxTheLimit]

granted that it's not required. but it's inevitable due to the nature of the act and the mentality of certain individuals that do it.As emotional beings we respond to the stress of committing less than beautiful acts, and sometimes the reaction can be fear. Fear can make a person do things that are out of character and in the end quite malicious.

[Kester]

The subjects I refered to are not one offs in the film. They are a mass production method, done day in day out.

[Natoksane]

^^
I think it's a terrible way the animals are killed and really, I agree with you Kester. It's unneeded to rip the skin off something and watch it die slowly, when doing something else to it could have been way more efficient.

People are money hungry though, and in a world like this it just won't be done the "right" way as many, including myself, would like it.

[MaxTheLimit]

The other acts of animal cruelty such as random acts of humans or inhuman treatment by people to random animals then?

Those are hardly something to address on a major scale then, it's more of a sad instance of individual basis situation.

[Manbearpig]

There is nothing wrong with killing an animal for food, clothing, or for the advancement of science. I believe that the killing of the animals should be as painless as possible and that any unesacery pain or prolonation of its death is wrong. I mean we should'nt set cats on fire for the hell of it. Animals do feel pain, but they do not think, they do not question the world aronde them they are inferior. Unless they start to form tribes, use tools, communicate with each other, and actually think about what they are, they are subserviant.

[Kester]

I think you'll find animals do think.

[MaxTheLimit]

They do have a limited sense of their own mortality however.

[Psyborg]

"Hey cat! You're gonna DIE! Yeah, you heard me, DIE!"

"Ha! The joke's on you, meow! I have a limited sense of my own mortality!"

"Dang it."

[Manbearpig]

Yes but they don't question their own station in life, they have no science, no art, no philosophy, they don't have debates likme this. We are the only specie on Earth that does this, we've evolved so far beyond the majority of them, (and for all 2 of you who don't believe in evolution God gave us dominion over them)

[redgrassbridge]

You don't know that. You have no way of knowing that. You, just like the vast majority of humans, assume that, which is nice for you because it justifies anything you want to do to another species.

There are a variety of other mammals with brains as developed, and larger, than human brains. Some species of whales, whose language we have been trying to understand for years, are an example. Scary as it is for some, it is entirely within reason to consider the idea of other species having society. They just don't have tools, because they don't have thumbs.

Humans are mechanically superior to other animals, I agree. It is arrogance, however, to assume we are intellectually or emotionally superior.

[MaxTheLimit]

While it's true nothing like that can be proven, there is a certain degree of assumptions and high likelihood that come into play in instances such as this. Humans are widely presumed to have slowly developed the physical makeup that allows us to use complex tools effectively. Humans are unique in that they are able to touch their opposable thumb over to their "pinky finger". This along with the general shape of the human hand allows for a secure grip on many objects. Through evolution it seems we've not always had this, but a rudimentary version, which was soon utilized. This sort of evolved physical change would also coincide with humans cultivating certain imaginative trains of thought that non-tool using species would not require. Since humans are largely unique in this our imaginative thought process allows us to conceive of realities that could exist, couldn't exist, and allow us to realize certain things about the world around us. A humans required evolution of imagination and visualization are what I think separates us. Other animals may be physically similar enough to potentially match our thought process but with brains not evolved to imagine o visualize to that extent mental prowess similarities would only be rudimentary in nature. It's not hard to see how the chain of events would lead to this end for humans and FAR different ends for all other species. These mental abilities cannot be proven but are for all intents and purposes VERY probably true. The ability to conceive of things we don't really know is our gift...unfortunately it's also the cause of a lot of humanities problems but it's been most effective in giving us dominance over this earth and earned us the right to take from it what we need...unfortunately need is also confused with want with the race in general.

[Manbearpig]

Thank you Max that was quite eloquent.

[Kester]

If you are going to use larger/less frequently used words, please try and spell them correctly. Otherwise you look like a bit of an ass =]

Eloquent.

/spelling nazi

[Manbearpig]

*****